How many reindeer do you have in your community?
Per-Martin: Well, ten years ago we had about 7000, but nowadays it is much less, about 3000 to 4000.
Why is it decreasing? Why are so many lost?
Per Martin: Because of the railway and the cars, and there have been bad winters. The reindeer can't just go where they want, they can't just go from the forest up to the mountains. When they get to Kiruna and the mine, they have to turn around and go back and find new ways to get up. And if there's too much snow down in the forest, they'll stay there until they die if we don't find them, because then they have to use too much energy to dig down to the food.
Lars-Marcus: But it's also this generational perspective. When the new generation sees that I can't do this anymore because I can't live on it. My reindeer are dying. It's easier to go and work in the mine if you can get a job there. They don't see any point in continuing their traditional work with the reindeer. So I think that's a big, big consequence. They don't see a future. So they don't start. Sami culture is about being with the reindeer, there's the Sami language and our traditions, being up in the mountains, going there with the reindeer and collecting them and so on. I think that's a threat to the survival of Sami culture in this area.
What's important about reindeer in northern Sweden when everything is high-tech, about space technology and finding new energy possibilities and things like that?
Lars-Marcus: It's so fundamental for the Sami, it's about the emotions associated with the culture. It's hard to see if we had all this, me and my brother, we had this when we were growing up, just like our forefathers and foremothers. And then our children, will they take a different path? They should still have a choice.
What does Gabna mean? Is it some kind of tribe or community? What is the difference with other Sami communities, Samebys as they are called?
Lars-Marcus: The difference is the reindeer, we have 51 Samebys in northern Sweden and down to the west. All together we call this Sapmi, the land of the Sami.
And with Gabna, how many people are we?
Per-Martin: We have about 130 or 140 different kinds of reindeer earmarks. We are about 140 people and 10 who work with the reindeer all year round. So that's me and 9 others. We are quite a small village. The next one to the south, Laevas Sameby, has about 200 people. Then Talma, also about 200.
And Gabna, what does that word mean?
Per-Martin: I have heard that it means that the terrain is very up and down. But my grandmother told me that Gabna means to scare things away. Unfortunately we couldn´t scare away all of all the mines in the area. The Sameby concept was introduced by the Swedish state. We live together in family groups called Siida.
The sameby is more of a regional concept than the siida, which is more of a family concept.
Lars-Marcus: In the winter we still live in siidas, a place where only the family and the closest comes together, and only in the summer do we all live together in a village with the other families in the sameby.
Per-Martin: In the summer we have about 40 small houses or cabins where we gather the reindeer to mark the calves' ears. When autumn comes, we let the reindeer go further east. When the snow comes, we gather the reindeer in a big corral (called a Girnu) and each Siida takes its reindeer out. These six winter groups then move down into the forest. This year three of them stayed in the mountains and the others went into the forest.
And you find your reindeer by their ears?
Per-Martin: Yes, you have to learn to recognize them from a distance. It is really difficult and you have to learn it as a child, there are thousands of possible combinations.
Lars-Marcus: That is how our culture works, children also take part in calf marking.
What do you think about the new rare earth discoveries in the Per Geijer field and the Talga Group's planned mine in Nunasvaara?
Lars-Marcus: As far as Per Geijer is concerned, we think that LKAB has announced this in order to get the permits faster, as this discovery offers the possibility to become more independent from China. In the end they want more iron ore. But our community thinks they should take more responsibility for the local indigenous people. Since 2007, Gabna Sameby has been an official party in the permitting process, but we are hardly recognised. As far as the Nunasvaara mine is concerned, it is a strange process because they applied for the environmental permit first, not the mining permit. Also, there are four mines they want to start with, but they have only applied for one at the moment. I think this is a salami tactic to get the permits easier. So we are very worried about all this, because we see our land being destroyed with one hole after another, like a Swiss cheese. The Swedish media is not very interested in what is happening up here, we get more requests from foreign media like you. In Kiruna, many people are negative about the Sami and reindeer. That is probably because we are against the mines, but most people here have their jobs there.
Do you own the land here?
Lars-Marcus: The Swedish state says they own the land, but we say how can you prove it? We have been here all the time, so we say we own it. We are in contact with LKAB, but it is not so good at the moment. They have much more PR power and resources than we do.
How does climate change affect reindeer husbandry?
Per-Martin: Ten years ago we still had winters with very long and very cold periods between minus 25 and minus 40 degrees. Now we have cold days, warm days and sometimes even rain. All this makes the snow very compact with a hard crust and the reindeer have to use more energy to get down to the food, or they have to walk more to find good places and leave the Gabna grazing areas. That is why some of us stayed in the mountains this year, because we were afraid of too much snow and bad conditions when it gets warmer.